Multimedia
Aug 20, 01:08 AM
That's okay. No worries. I just get a little defensive when I spend $5000 on a new system, and then see you posting about how it'll be better with Clovertown. But that's my problem I guess. :rolleyes:
Anyway, it's all cool.Thank you. I didn't mean to make you feel bad. This Clovertown thing is not new news. Some of us have known it would follow the first Mac Pro fairly soon thereafter since last Winter and have been discussing it ever since then. So I didn't think bringing it up here would upset new buyers. It's definitely going to cost a lot more if that helps.Yeah... me too! LOL!! :D
As for Toast and Handbrake performance... well that's all well and cool, but I have little use for those apps on such extreme level. I can't think of an instance where I would run Toast more than once or twice a week. Maybe I should get netflix and build a library of illegal movies?? Nah... I will be using my Macpro for creative work instead. FCP, Motion, Shake, Lightwave, Maya etc... I realize that comparisions with Handbrake and Toast are being made just to show how the cores are utilized, but frankly, I don't give a damn about those apps. They show me nothing. Now if you get into comparing heavy duty Professional apps that take full advantage of all cores at native speeds, then I'm excited. For example, Newtek Lightwave has been announced as UB "very soon". Lightwave is a fully multicore application that should test the strength of the Macpro when it comes to rendering. I'd love to see those benchmarks compared to G5!
Newtek Press Release (http://www.newtek.com/news/releases/08-01-06f.html)Thanks. I know what you mean. :)
Just a brief clarification on how I use Toast. Has nothing to do with burning DVDs. I use it to encode DVD Images of Digital Broadcast Television Shows recorded with EyeTV2 from off air SD and HD transmissions for personal archival purposes. Images not DVDs. Why? Because I beleive Handbrake is the most superior mp4 encoder available and it needs DVDs or DVD Images to rip from. Toast has what I think is among the best DVD Image transcoders. So I crank up the Toast settings to Maximum Quality and transcode the Native Digital Off Air Broadcast Recordings with Toast to DVD Images that Handbrake can then use to make pristine mp4 files that are a fraction the size of the originals. Once ripped to mp4s, the originals can be deleted as well as the Toast Images. What was originally a 4.4 GB recording winds up a 351 MB mp4 file - not H.264 btw for other reasons. 12 of those mp4 files fit on the same DVD that even one of the original recordings won't even fit on. And they look very similar to the originals. A little soft, but very fine from a fraction of the starting size. And from an iPod on an analog TV they look as good as commercial DVDs.
The same technique can be used to make pristine iPod compatible web-size versions of any of your FCP creations. So it may be relevant to you when you look at that post post-production application. :)
Anyway I'm glad you guys aren't too angry with me cause this time forward is really going to be a power explosion on all personal computers and we all know here that OS X is the only way to fly with the new hardware. Once we get Leopard on board and the remainder of all the pro aplications go UB and MultiCore Optimized, 2007 forward are going to be amazing times for creativity with little to no waiting for any processes to get done. :) Whoopie!
Anyway, it's all cool.Thank you. I didn't mean to make you feel bad. This Clovertown thing is not new news. Some of us have known it would follow the first Mac Pro fairly soon thereafter since last Winter and have been discussing it ever since then. So I didn't think bringing it up here would upset new buyers. It's definitely going to cost a lot more if that helps.Yeah... me too! LOL!! :D
As for Toast and Handbrake performance... well that's all well and cool, but I have little use for those apps on such extreme level. I can't think of an instance where I would run Toast more than once or twice a week. Maybe I should get netflix and build a library of illegal movies?? Nah... I will be using my Macpro for creative work instead. FCP, Motion, Shake, Lightwave, Maya etc... I realize that comparisions with Handbrake and Toast are being made just to show how the cores are utilized, but frankly, I don't give a damn about those apps. They show me nothing. Now if you get into comparing heavy duty Professional apps that take full advantage of all cores at native speeds, then I'm excited. For example, Newtek Lightwave has been announced as UB "very soon". Lightwave is a fully multicore application that should test the strength of the Macpro when it comes to rendering. I'd love to see those benchmarks compared to G5!
Newtek Press Release (http://www.newtek.com/news/releases/08-01-06f.html)Thanks. I know what you mean. :)
Just a brief clarification on how I use Toast. Has nothing to do with burning DVDs. I use it to encode DVD Images of Digital Broadcast Television Shows recorded with EyeTV2 from off air SD and HD transmissions for personal archival purposes. Images not DVDs. Why? Because I beleive Handbrake is the most superior mp4 encoder available and it needs DVDs or DVD Images to rip from. Toast has what I think is among the best DVD Image transcoders. So I crank up the Toast settings to Maximum Quality and transcode the Native Digital Off Air Broadcast Recordings with Toast to DVD Images that Handbrake can then use to make pristine mp4 files that are a fraction the size of the originals. Once ripped to mp4s, the originals can be deleted as well as the Toast Images. What was originally a 4.4 GB recording winds up a 351 MB mp4 file - not H.264 btw for other reasons. 12 of those mp4 files fit on the same DVD that even one of the original recordings won't even fit on. And they look very similar to the originals. A little soft, but very fine from a fraction of the starting size. And from an iPod on an analog TV they look as good as commercial DVDs.
The same technique can be used to make pristine iPod compatible web-size versions of any of your FCP creations. So it may be relevant to you when you look at that post post-production application. :)
Anyway I'm glad you guys aren't too angry with me cause this time forward is really going to be a power explosion on all personal computers and we all know here that OS X is the only way to fly with the new hardware. Once we get Leopard on board and the remainder of all the pro aplications go UB and MultiCore Optimized, 2007 forward are going to be amazing times for creativity with little to no waiting for any processes to get done. :) Whoopie!
Xenious
Jul 14, 05:27 PM
Dual drive slots are cool, but the design is boring. Don't get me wrong I love my G5 powermac I was just hoping for a new or different design for the next ones...Maybe the same but square or smaller or something. Oh well it doesn't matter I'm still buying. :)
62tele
Apr 11, 06:02 PM
Disappointing. I can't wait until year's end. I didn't buy the 4 because of the antenna plus lousy ATT coverage in my area. My iPhone 3GS is getting long in the tooth!
Steve is wrong about Google trying kill the iPhone. Apple may beat 'em to it!
Steve is wrong about Google trying kill the iPhone. Apple may beat 'em to it!
Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 04:08 PM
That may be, but I highly doubt every infant, elderly folks, and the poverty stricken all have cell phones. If that's the case, then I'd have to say that there are a lot of people who's financial priorities are kinda messed.
What sjo wrote seem quite accurate. Cells are extremly common here. It has become so common that cellphones nowdays are almost considered as a anti-status symbol. Poor people cant "afford" a land line.
Many like me, have multiple contracts. Our old contracts, used to be roll-over type. Hence, a lot of people have many minutes left on their old contracts. They pay a small fee to keep the old contract alive and then use these minutes when they travel in abroad (expensive to call). Then they have a new contract that allows you to talk very cheap within a/some countries. These minutes are not roll-over type.
As you can see, we have a big mess too when it comes to contracts. I wish I could keep one phone and one number, but right now that is financially insane.
What sjo wrote seem quite accurate. Cells are extremly common here. It has become so common that cellphones nowdays are almost considered as a anti-status symbol. Poor people cant "afford" a land line.
Many like me, have multiple contracts. Our old contracts, used to be roll-over type. Hence, a lot of people have many minutes left on their old contracts. They pay a small fee to keep the old contract alive and then use these minutes when they travel in abroad (expensive to call). Then they have a new contract that allows you to talk very cheap within a/some countries. These minutes are not roll-over type.
As you can see, we have a big mess too when it comes to contracts. I wish I could keep one phone and one number, but right now that is financially insane.
VanNess
Aug 7, 04:24 PM
By the way, I don't want to say Leopard is a disappointment compared to Vista, obviously we were not shown Leopard in action to any great degree yet. But the keynote (at least the Leopard part) was definitely a disappointment. It hardly scratched the surface of just about everything that everybody was most interested in/concerned about.
http://www.misterbg.org/AppleProductCycle/CryBaby2.gif
http://www.misterbg.org/AppleProductCycle/CryBaby2.gif
THX1139
Aug 19, 07:34 PM
... For anyone out there who has been needlessly influenced by this guy to wait for a system that will only be outdated by the one that will come after it, please uninfluence yourself, and buy the stupid computer that you want, when you want it.
Jeeshh!!
I agree. I'm noticing a trend. People who are looking at the Macpro in a negative way come in three flavors. The first type are invested in G5 (especially quad) and are desperately trying justify that their investment is sound, when they actually desire a Macpro. They can feel better about their old machines by making the new ones seem bad. The are almost "smug" about waiting until a better one comes out. The second flavor are people who hate the Mac culture and are pissed that the Mac is catching up to the windows workstation sector. The third type are people who can't afford a Macpro and go out of their way to publicly discredit the machine so that they can feel good about their iMacs or Minis. There are others, but you get the point.
I also find it amusing when I see posters participating in Macpro discussions when they have publicly stated that they have no intention of buying a Macpro. WTF?? Don't they have a life outside of macrumors? If I owned a G5 Quad and had no intention of buying a Macpro, I'd be spending all of my spare time doing cool stuff with my machine... instead of wasting that time participating in discussions that have nothing to do with me. I might read though some of the threads now and then, just to keep up with technology - but to particpate and debate, what a waste. I guess some folks have no life.
Jeeshh!!
I agree. I'm noticing a trend. People who are looking at the Macpro in a negative way come in three flavors. The first type are invested in G5 (especially quad) and are desperately trying justify that their investment is sound, when they actually desire a Macpro. They can feel better about their old machines by making the new ones seem bad. The are almost "smug" about waiting until a better one comes out. The second flavor are people who hate the Mac culture and are pissed that the Mac is catching up to the windows workstation sector. The third type are people who can't afford a Macpro and go out of their way to publicly discredit the machine so that they can feel good about their iMacs or Minis. There are others, but you get the point.
I also find it amusing when I see posters participating in Macpro discussions when they have publicly stated that they have no intention of buying a Macpro. WTF?? Don't they have a life outside of macrumors? If I owned a G5 Quad and had no intention of buying a Macpro, I'd be spending all of my spare time doing cool stuff with my machine... instead of wasting that time participating in discussions that have nothing to do with me. I might read though some of the threads now and then, just to keep up with technology - but to particpate and debate, what a waste. I guess some folks have no life.
nsjoker
Aug 11, 12:13 PM
this phone is going to have to be pretty amazing for me to get one.. I'm talking a full-fledged iPod with capabilities of a great cell phone.. and decently priced. terminating my contract just isn't worth it from an economical point of view.
Bill McEnaney
Mar 3, 10:48 AM
Why do you conflate homosexuality with abuse and paedophilia?
I'm not conflating them. See post 129.
I'm not conflating them. See post 129.
wmmk
Aug 17, 09:49 AM
I don't like Adobe anymore. :mad:
I dunno, I mean, I guess they could use core image, but really. CS3 will probably have PS, Illustrator, ID, FW, Flash, DW, CF, Contribute, Bridge and Acrobat. That's 10 apps. Would you want to develop 20 apps, just so that Mac users could have Core Image? Until competitors come along with Core Image support, don't expect Adobe to have it.
I dunno, I mean, I guess they could use core image, but really. CS3 will probably have PS, Illustrator, ID, FW, Flash, DW, CF, Contribute, Bridge and Acrobat. That's 10 apps. Would you want to develop 20 apps, just so that Mac users could have Core Image? Until competitors come along with Core Image support, don't expect Adobe to have it.
4God
Jul 14, 02:30 PM
Dual optical drive slots are a must....<snip>.....
Maybe one of the drives will be Blu-Ray.
Maybe one of the drives will be Blu-Ray.
mrsir2009
Apr 19, 02:47 PM
Hey leave Samsung alone! They're my favorite tech company after Apple :)
Rooskibar03
Apr 11, 01:06 PM
Guess this isn't as bad as I would like it to be. ATT moved my upgrade date to 12/3 after I lowered my pricing plan.
Bummer.
Bummer.
Macnoviz
Jul 20, 08:23 AM
Would be a very long keynote too:
- release date of 10.5 revealed - possibly more stuff revealed
- new software (considerable update to iWork if the rumours are true)
- iMac/MacBook updates
- iPod/iTunes stuff
Strike:
- release date of 10.5 revealed - possibly more stuff revealed
Insert:
-release of 10.5
- release date of 10.5 revealed - possibly more stuff revealed
- new software (considerable update to iWork if the rumours are true)
- iMac/MacBook updates
- iPod/iTunes stuff
Strike:
- release date of 10.5 revealed - possibly more stuff revealed
Insert:
-release of 10.5
mwswami
Jul 21, 02:04 PM
There may be unknown variables supporting 8 cores from 4 such that I would not want to take that path. I would rather have 8 cores on a new motherboard with faster ram etc supported to get the most out of all of them at newer faster speeds.
Intel's Bensley platform was designed for Dempsey, Woodcrest, and Clovertown families of Xeon processors. So the system components like mobo and memory will remain the same. Any changes will be incremental.
Of course things like Blue Ray and 802.11n may not be offered in the next release but only in Rev 2. Or, they will be cheaper.
I know you already have a quad-core PowerMac so it makes sense for you to wait .... unless SJ is able to tempt you come WWDC with promise of 2x performance etc. ... :D :D
Intel's Bensley platform was designed for Dempsey, Woodcrest, and Clovertown families of Xeon processors. So the system components like mobo and memory will remain the same. Any changes will be incremental.
Of course things like Blue Ray and 802.11n may not be offered in the next release but only in Rev 2. Or, they will be cheaper.
I know you already have a quad-core PowerMac so it makes sense for you to wait .... unless SJ is able to tempt you come WWDC with promise of 2x performance etc. ... :D :D
Object-X
Jul 14, 03:37 PM
What about SLI video card support? They should try and appeal to high end gamers by having a configuration comparable to Alienware or Dell's XPS. If Apple's hardware can now run Windows, Apple should really take a stab at this market. It will be hard to justify $3000 for a computer that doesn't have the latest cutting edge hardware. Dual 512MB nVidia GeForce 7900 GTX would be a nice start. Otherwise, the accusation of overpriced computers will be appropriate. Why would someone running Windows consider this purchase, if they can get better components for less money elsewhere. Is Apple really serious about taking market share away from PC companies? Or are they going to play it safe and target only the market that they already have?
Slix
Apr 6, 03:45 PM
Never heard anyone say "I want a Xoom!" :rolleyes:
BGil
Aug 7, 04:42 PM
Which takes us back to the behavior that was the default on VAX systems running VMS 20 years ago... Microsoft is implementing something similar in Vista as well. http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060730-7383.html
B
Yeah, Apple is definitely copying Microsoft now... it's pretty undeniable. Time Machine is virtually identical to Microsoft's backup system for Vista.
"Previous Docs" from Wikipedia:
"Previous Versions", previously known as Volume Shadow Copy in Windows Server provides read-only snapshots of files on local or network volumes from an earlier point in time. A new tab in the Properties dialog for any file or folder provides users with straightforward access to these previous versions.
System Restore, Shadow Copy, and Backup in Vista now run on the same technology (so they are considerably different than the XP versions).
iChat basically got the remote screen sharing feature that Microsoft shipped with XP in 2001 (included in Windows Messenger) and the presentation/app sharing features from Windows collaboration in Vista.
Mail and iCal got a bunch of features from Outlook 2007 and Windows Live Calendar/Mail.
Dashboard's ability to clip web pages is straight out of Active Desktop.
the Spotlight improvements were things that Indexing Server in XP/2000/2003 already did. Even windows desktop search (enterprise) and Vista include that functionality as well.
Spaces is virtual desktops just like the powertoy MS released years ago
http://www.snapfiles.com/reviews/Virtual_Desktop_Manager_Powertoy/msvdm.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_desktop
Core Animation looks like Apple's response to all the DX and WPF (Avalon) animation tools in Vista.
B
Yeah, Apple is definitely copying Microsoft now... it's pretty undeniable. Time Machine is virtually identical to Microsoft's backup system for Vista.
"Previous Docs" from Wikipedia:
"Previous Versions", previously known as Volume Shadow Copy in Windows Server provides read-only snapshots of files on local or network volumes from an earlier point in time. A new tab in the Properties dialog for any file or folder provides users with straightforward access to these previous versions.
System Restore, Shadow Copy, and Backup in Vista now run on the same technology (so they are considerably different than the XP versions).
iChat basically got the remote screen sharing feature that Microsoft shipped with XP in 2001 (included in Windows Messenger) and the presentation/app sharing features from Windows collaboration in Vista.
Mail and iCal got a bunch of features from Outlook 2007 and Windows Live Calendar/Mail.
Dashboard's ability to clip web pages is straight out of Active Desktop.
the Spotlight improvements were things that Indexing Server in XP/2000/2003 already did. Even windows desktop search (enterprise) and Vista include that functionality as well.
Spaces is virtual desktops just like the powertoy MS released years ago
http://www.snapfiles.com/reviews/Virtual_Desktop_Manager_Powertoy/msvdm.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_desktop
Core Animation looks like Apple's response to all the DX and WPF (Avalon) animation tools in Vista.
aswitcher
Aug 27, 05:17 AM
What would be competitive:
SNIP
iMac 2.4-2.66Ghz Conroe, X1800 and LCD res upgrade
Mac Mini: 1.83Ghz Allendale (going to be much cheaper than Merom, so if they can they will put one in) Integrated graphics
Mac Pro: Dual 2.0-3.0Ghz Xeons
I agree, it would be really good if Apple did what they did with the Mac Pro, and made sure the next updates used the best appropriate tech available.
Alternatively, they should release a grunty half sized Mac Pro for those who need more power and customisation, but dont need a full on work station.
SNIP
iMac 2.4-2.66Ghz Conroe, X1800 and LCD res upgrade
Mac Mini: 1.83Ghz Allendale (going to be much cheaper than Merom, so if they can they will put one in) Integrated graphics
Mac Pro: Dual 2.0-3.0Ghz Xeons
I agree, it would be really good if Apple did what they did with the Mac Pro, and made sure the next updates used the best appropriate tech available.
Alternatively, they should release a grunty half sized Mac Pro for those who need more power and customisation, but dont need a full on work station.
bobber205
Apr 27, 04:41 PM
The bigger deal here is the tendency of some fathers to name their kids the EXACT same name they have and add a "2nd". I've always thought that practice couldn't be stupidier. :P
Bill McEnaney
Mar 1, 04:17 AM
Your ignorance is staggering.
That's strange. I've never seen my ignorance stagger. I've always thought it couldn't walk. ;)
Seriously, please educate me, neko girl.
That's strange. I've never seen my ignorance stagger. I've always thought it couldn't walk. ;)
Seriously, please educate me, neko girl.
aafuss1
Aug 6, 05:38 PM
That's funny. A nice little jab at M$. Classic!
A nice jab at MS-at least with Leopard, there's only 1 edition unlike M$'s 7 for Vista.
A nice jab at MS-at least with Leopard, there's only 1 edition unlike M$'s 7 for Vista.
KnightWRX
Apr 7, 09:36 AM
You make it seem like intel told apple they can't use the sb chips unless they use the IGP, which is obviously false.
It's not false per say, at least not 100%. Of course, graphics in such systems are usually IGPs, but before the Core iX line of processors, anyone could license and build chipsets for these processors and include a different IGP than Intel did. Intel however refused to license this for the new processors, including the SB line and thus nVidia who was making chipsets could not produce an IGP for the new platform.
So yes, essentially Intel told Apple they had to use the 3000 HD as an IGP, where before, Apple was using nVidia's tech. There was even a massive lawsuit about all of this, between Intel and nVidia which ended with nVidia stepping out of the chipset business alltogether.
So the poster you were replying to wasn't 100% wrong at all. It is in fact a testament to Intel's incompetence how all of this was handled, since an old MBA with a 320m outpaces new SB machines that have a much more powerful CPU in graphics performance.
It's not false per say, at least not 100%. Of course, graphics in such systems are usually IGPs, but before the Core iX line of processors, anyone could license and build chipsets for these processors and include a different IGP than Intel did. Intel however refused to license this for the new processors, including the SB line and thus nVidia who was making chipsets could not produce an IGP for the new platform.
So yes, essentially Intel told Apple they had to use the 3000 HD as an IGP, where before, Apple was using nVidia's tech. There was even a massive lawsuit about all of this, between Intel and nVidia which ended with nVidia stepping out of the chipset business alltogether.
So the poster you were replying to wasn't 100% wrong at all. It is in fact a testament to Intel's incompetence how all of this was handled, since an old MBA with a 320m outpaces new SB machines that have a much more powerful CPU in graphics performance.
Squire
Aug 5, 11:30 PM
Does anyone think the recent "problems" at Apple are going to have any effect on what happens Monday.
Story: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/08/05/BUGAHKBK3H1.DTL
If there are products that are they "maybe" list, this might put them on the "go" list. Big news pushes stock prices up and pushes the "problem" stories on page 2.
I agree. In fact, I was going to post the same thing. I was all set to be disappointed by the keynote until I read a new Forbes article on the topic. They are expecting some pretty amazing things; things that will divert media attention away from Apple's embarrassing financial scandal.
-Squire
P.S. How about seamless MSN/Yahoo! Messenger support in iChat?\
<edit> All of which has upped the stakes for Apple and Jobs, the company's public face. He must show the world something new when he delivers the keynote at Monday's conference. Really new. Something revolutionary, not evolutionary, that will excite the fans, grow the business--and change the subject.
http://www.forbes.com/home/technology/2006/08/04/ipod-jobs-zune_cx_ck_rr_0804apple.html
Story: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/08/05/BUGAHKBK3H1.DTL
If there are products that are they "maybe" list, this might put them on the "go" list. Big news pushes stock prices up and pushes the "problem" stories on page 2.
I agree. In fact, I was going to post the same thing. I was all set to be disappointed by the keynote until I read a new Forbes article on the topic. They are expecting some pretty amazing things; things that will divert media attention away from Apple's embarrassing financial scandal.
-Squire
P.S. How about seamless MSN/Yahoo! Messenger support in iChat?\
<edit> All of which has upped the stakes for Apple and Jobs, the company's public face. He must show the world something new when he delivers the keynote at Monday's conference. Really new. Something revolutionary, not evolutionary, that will excite the fans, grow the business--and change the subject.
http://www.forbes.com/home/technology/2006/08/04/ipod-jobs-zune_cx_ck_rr_0804apple.html
BWhaler
Aug 26, 06:49 PM
Only if you have no sense of humour! :p
It's not really that.
It's just that the joke is soooo done. Played out.
It's time to turn the page.
It's not really that.
It's just that the joke is soooo done. Played out.
It's time to turn the page.
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